I'm not sure about this one. I mean, I can see how that would work, but I feel decent characterisation should get across the villain's motives. Having to put characters through the wringer to prove they aren't lying is a bit clumsy. Though I guess it's easier to make the villain's change of heart clear in some POVs than others.
Well, it depends on the villain. If it's someone who has a reputation for being deceptive, pure evil, totally unremorseful, etc... why should the audience believe they've redeemed? Even if they're sincere, maybe they're fooling themselves and could have a "relapse". Maybe, even though they're fighting for the side of good, they still use methods that are horrendous to their allies. And so on and so forth.
For a start, you don't get to pay off your karmic debt at the time and place of your choosing, so that you have a clear credit history for your new job with the good guys.
Well, as you said, most redemption arcs terminate in the good-baddie dying noblely, so there's not room for it later. I think there have been a few cases of characters suffering for their sins after putting in some time on the side of angels, but I think that falls under "suffering to get the audience on their side." Look, they've paid for their crimes, they're doing good deeds, why should they have to suffer for what they did before now that they have a sooooooooooul? So it takes place before their redeemed phase for the same reason a horse comes before a carriage.
anyone who thought they were in the right but changes their mind deserves to suffer makes me uncomfortable
But it's a point in most modern fiction that the ends don't justify the means. Our heroes won't stoop to the level of their enemies. So even though the bad guys thought they were doing the right thing, they went about it in a horrible way.
I guess from my point of view the question would be whether you're showing the character of the friends, that this is how they would react, and her character in how she responds, or just putting on a circus display where the audience gets to applaud their stand-ins being cruel to someone who 'deserves it'.
Well, since the story is told from the POV (mostly) of the guy who's in love with her, who was himself a former baddie, I think this would fall under "suffering to get the audience's sympathies" if it went any further than some frosty "we don't trust you, go die in a fire" sentiments. Of the other two heroes, the guy who most vocally disapproves of her is a jerkass anti-hero, and the other one decides to forgive her after being genuinely concerned with whether she's truly reformed or just going to break his friend's heart at a later date.
There's suffering that comes after that, but it's more of the general plotty variety: She's a part of the team by then. But like I said, I stacked the deck in her favor. If she had started out as a proper mustache-twirling, puppy-kicking villain, I might've/probably would've penciled in some more serious consequences for her more serious actions.
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Well, it depends on the villain. If it's someone who has a reputation for being deceptive, pure evil, totally unremorseful, etc... why should the audience believe they've redeemed? Even if they're sincere, maybe they're fooling themselves and could have a "relapse". Maybe, even though they're fighting for the side of good, they still use methods that are horrendous to their allies. And so on and so forth.
For a start, you don't get to pay off your karmic debt at the time and place of your choosing, so that you have a clear credit history for your new job with the good guys.
Well, as you said, most redemption arcs terminate in the good-baddie dying noblely, so there's not room for it later. I think there have been a few cases of characters suffering for their sins after putting in some time on the side of angels, but I think that falls under "suffering to get the audience on their side." Look, they've paid for their crimes, they're doing good deeds, why should they have to suffer for what they did before now that they have a sooooooooooul? So it takes place before their redeemed phase for the same reason a horse comes before a carriage.
anyone who thought they were in the right but changes their mind deserves to suffer makes me uncomfortable
But it's a point in most modern fiction that the ends don't justify the means. Our heroes won't stoop to the level of their enemies. So even though the bad guys thought they were doing the right thing, they went about it in a horrible way.
I guess from my point of view the question would be whether you're showing the character of the friends, that this is how they would react, and her character in how she responds, or just putting on a circus display where the audience gets to applaud their stand-ins being cruel to someone who 'deserves it'.
Well, since the story is told from the POV (mostly) of the guy who's in love with her, who was himself a former baddie, I think this would fall under "suffering to get the audience's sympathies" if it went any further than some frosty "we don't trust you, go die in a fire" sentiments. Of the other two heroes, the guy who most vocally disapproves of her is a jerkass anti-hero, and the other one decides to forgive her after being genuinely concerned with whether she's truly reformed or just going to break his friend's heart at a later date.
There's suffering that comes after that, but it's more of the general plotty variety: She's a part of the team by then. But like I said, I stacked the deck in her favor. If she had started out as a proper mustache-twirling, puppy-kicking villain, I might've/probably would've penciled in some more serious consequences for her more serious actions.