I am curious if your discussion included a certain Heroes villain, who I adore. I hope for some sort of redemption for him, in the sense that I want his character to not have to be killed off in the possibly near future.
Except, I don't want him to suddenly go "oh I have seen the light! I am so evil, must make up for it!" because, with this character especially, it just doesn't make any sense. *really needs to find a way onto the Heroes writing team*
Anywho...
Lets keep this in general terms.
Sacrificing him/herself as an act of redemption can be done well, but mostly only if you don't see it coming. Pre-planned, over-dramatic self-sacrifice-as-redemption can really suck ass.
Now, I'm gonna add here that it *can* be done well. Take Darth Vader, for example? Forgetting his final words which I could go either way on, you've got a villain who doesn't so much intend to sacrifice himself, as he turns on his master for the sake of his son. I never appreciated his character as much before the prequels though (which, while contained some major suckage, still do a lot for understanding Anakin/Vader). The way he goes full circle is more poetic than cliched, to me.
I'd like to now cite an example that didn't work, but I think I've done my best to purge said things from my memories.
I personally would lean towards your last three examples. Actually, I have a fic in the works that is leaning towards an interesting variant of "The villain doesn't think he's been in the wrong, but does think circumstances have now changed, so he decides to do things differently from now on." Except the "from now on" is more "until circumstances change again" though one can hope that over time the change in attitude will become permanent... XD
A neat and packaged happy ending, with vengeance enacted or "true redemption" just doesn't usually work for me.
EDIT: haha, I just realized Vader's already been mentioned. Oh well..
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I am curious if your discussion included a certain Heroes villain, who I adore. I hope for some sort of redemption for him, in the sense that I want his character to not have to be killed off in the possibly near future.
Except, I don't want him to suddenly go "oh I have seen the light! I am so evil, must make up for it!" because, with this character especially, it just doesn't make any sense. *really needs to find a way onto the Heroes writing team*
Anywho...
Lets keep this in general terms.
Sacrificing him/herself as an act of redemption can be done well, but mostly only if you don't see it coming. Pre-planned, over-dramatic self-sacrifice-as-redemption can really suck ass.
Now, I'm gonna add here that it *can* be done well. Take Darth Vader, for example? Forgetting his final words which I could go either way on, you've got a villain who doesn't so much intend to sacrifice himself, as he turns on his master for the sake of his son. I never appreciated his character as much before the prequels though (which, while contained some major suckage, still do a lot for understanding Anakin/Vader). The way he goes full circle is more poetic than cliched, to me.
I'd like to now cite an example that didn't work, but I think I've done my best to purge said things from my memories.
I personally would lean towards your last three examples. Actually, I have a fic in the works that is leaning towards an interesting variant of "The villain doesn't think he's been in the wrong, but does think circumstances have now changed, so he decides to do things differently from now on." Except the "from now on" is more "until circumstances change again" though one can hope that over time the change in attitude will become permanent... XD
A neat and packaged happy ending, with vengeance enacted or "true redemption" just doesn't usually work for me.
EDIT: haha, I just realized Vader's already been mentioned. Oh well..